The Brave and Balanced Fundraiser

Fundraising From Abundance with Beth Ann Locke

• Erin McQuade-Wright

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Practical major gift strategies to reduce fundraising anxiety, build trust, and stop operating from pressure—with insights from a 30-year fundraising veteran.

Major gifts aren’t just strategy—they’re state. In this episode of The Brave & Balanced Fundraiser, Erin is joined by major gift specialist Beth Ann Locke, a 30-year fundraising veteran who teaches connection-based, customized strategies that grow major gifts without turning fundraisers into exhausted social butterflies or transactional “donor-chasers.”

Together, they explore what happens inside a fundraiser’s nervous system when money pressure is high, confidence is battered, or the workplace rewards hustle over relationship. Beth Ann offers practical ways to build donor conversations around trust, curiosity, and alignment—plus simple operational shifts that create more capacity (like deep-work boundaries and post-meeting decompression time).

They also discuss Beth Ann’s role in catalyzing the early sexual harassment survey that helped prompt AFP’s broader research—bringing visibility to a workplace reality too many fundraisers have been forced to carry alone.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • Why “everyone is a prospect” is a fast track to burnout—and what to do instead
  • A powerful reframe for donor silence (and how to stop personalizing it)
  • What “non-extractive” donor engagement actually sounds like
  • Practical ways to protect deep work and reduce internal interruption overload
  • Why naming harassment and bullying in fundraising workplaces changes the culture

Connect with Beth Ann Locke:

  • Instagram: @thefundraisercoach
  • LinkedIn: Beth Ann Locke
  • Blog: Follow her writing for major gifts + fundraising leadership insights at https://www.thefundraisercoach.com/

If this episode helped you, share it with a fundraiser friend who’s been carrying too much pressure—and leave a review so more fundraisers can find the support they deserve.


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@erinmcquadewright

Erin McQuade-Wright

Welcome to the Brave and Balanced Fundraiser, the podcast I wish I'd had during my 15 years as a professional fundraiser. I'm your host, Erin McQuade- Wright. This is your space to breathe, realign, and reconnect with a part of you that chose this work for a reason. Together we'll explore tools and practices that help you show up less stressed and spread thin and more grounded, brave, and on purpose. I'm so glad you're here. Let's get started. Hi friends. If major gift fundraising has ever made you feel"on" all the time, like tight chested over-explaining or quietly bracing for rejection. This episode will reset your approach. Beth Ann Locke, who has over 30 years of experience in fundraising, breaks down connection based major gift strategy and the internal pressure that derails it: fear, money, stress, and workplace dynamics that reward transaction. Over relationship. You'll walk away from this conversation with language you can use in donor conversations, practical boundary setting ideas for your workday, and a grounded way to stop making donor silence means something about you. Let's dive in. Today I am joined by Beth Ann Locke. I'm really excited about this conversation. Beth Ann is a major gift specialist who helps fundraisers develop customized connection based. Strategies to swiftly grow their major gifts and catalyze impactful change. She's had over 30 years of experience fundraising for nonprofits, and she helps them work more effectively surpassing their fundraising goals, but also building stronger donor and team relationships. Beth Ann is a speaker, writer and leader in the industry, and she's spoken out on some of the most serious challenges facing nonprofit workplaces, and we're gonna get into. All of that today. So Beth Ann, welcome to the Brave and Balanced Fundraiser.

Beth Ann Locke

It's, it's a pleasure to be here, Erin. Thank you.

Erin McQuade-Wright

I have to say, you are one of my early encouragers about starting this podcast in the first place because having a podcast that is focused on the inner climate of the fundraiser is just not something I saw available when I did a sort of survey of what's out there in terms of books and podcasts and ongoing conversations with that level of focus. And so I wanna thank you for saying. Yes, Erin, this is important. Do it, have, have this conversation? Yeah.

Beth Ann Locke

Well I felt, I, I, you hear a lot of fundraisers talk about feeling alone and I think it takes a lot of vulnerability to, confront some of the things we feel or experience in our workplaces, um, or with donors. And there's, there's so much to do that sometimes sort of taking what we might broadly call, taking care of yourself either can seem selfish or too woo or whatever impedes you to get the job done. And of course, I'm a kind of person who feels like that actually helps you get the job done because, I don't actually think there's a lot of separation between who you are outside the office or what's happening to you outside the office and how you can operate, um, as a, as a working person.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah, that's a really good point. And I remember when I entered the field of philanthropy, specifically in fundraising, I really had this sort of maybe older paradigm that it was separate, that my work. Person was separate from my out of work person and never the twain shall meet. And I met you or I saw you around this time I was a new baby fundraiser and I went out to Seattle for the nonprofit storytelling conference. And I don't know how I found it. I don't know how I. Made that the budget for my professional development that year, but I knew that this was a room I needed to be in, and it was, I think just in its second year or something like that. Yeah, very small. It was capped at. Something like 500 attendees. And I went there and I had such a beautiful experience seeing fundraising through the lens of storytelling. I was like, oh, thank God this is much more art than science. And I wanted some art at that point in my, in my learning. And you were one of the speakers there. And I don't remember what you spoke about, but I remember your name because when it popped up in a Zoom room, years and years later, I immediately knew you and we were signed up for the same coaching. Intensive. Yeah. Which is called the Institute for Coaching Mastery.

Beth Ann Locke

Yes. Yes.

Erin McQuade-Wright

So I, it was so crazy to see you in both places

Beth Ann Locke

outta context in a way.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah, yeah,

Beth Ann Locke

yeah. Yeah. I, I think, um, you know, those early years, uh, well, the, I love the Nonprofit Storytelling conference, and in those early years I was sort of working closely. I was in Seattle. With them. And, um, there was also a real feeling about having people share experiences in the room together. That was sort of one of the tenets of that conference. And I think the, it, it's that shared experience that I think. Sometimes, uh, you know, is missing. And I, I would say this is all, that was all pre, uh, COVID with, you know, those early DA early years. And I think people crave it even more because we're very much virtual or working virtually or sometimes meeting donors virtually, even though we have the opportunity to meet in person now. And I think it. I don't know. For me it is really all about connection. That that's, and that's how we get much farther in our fundraising is, is creating opportunities and pathways for connection with, with donors and prospective donors. So anyways, but I think that's what fundraisers need is that, you know, it's like a little oasis you can go to and, uh, have some shade and some cool water and, um, take a moment for yourself.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah, that's really beautiful. And I remember feeling. I kind of conflicted. At the time when I was new to fundraising, I was in kind of a smallish town and I had this story that if I was vulnerable with my fellow fundraisers, that that would mean them raising more and me raising less. And I couldn't necessarily do the math on that and say exactly how that would happen, but it was more of a feeling than a fact, and it kept me. Kind of closed mouth about what was going on with me.'cause I didn't wanna seem ungrateful. Mm-hmm. For the work that I got to do. And I didn't wanna seem incompetent among my peers. And so I had incentive to kind of. Go along to get along and mask a little bit and show up in these rooms like smiling and looking pretty and not really talking about the grit of fundraising and like basically now with this podcast. All I do is talk about the grit. I love the grit.

Beth Ann Locke

Well, and especially with major gift fundraising, I think it's, you know, oh, there, it's, it's a little magic. Right. And I think there can be, I don't wanna call it gatekeeping, but kind of that feeling that, um. You know, you know, and you can do it really well. And, and I think that whole, there are only winners and losers is a, it is an old paradigm because I actually don't believe every person is a prospect for you, whoever you are. Mm-hmm. Because there, you know, I, I truly believe this is about alignment with interests, values, and passions on the part of the donor. And they may like you, they may like your organization, but it's not driving them to be that. Major gift donor. And so once you, I think once you re release yourself from the idea that every single possible person I encounter is a prospect and I need to be coming forward that way all the time, then you can actually be a little bit more yourself and, and have actually the generosity of meeting people without feeling rejected when they're not interested or not coming to the s

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. That's deep. That is, um, what, what. I think our, our coach, Alyssa, no Briga would call high involvement low attachment.

Beth Ann Locke

Yes. Yes.

Erin McQuade-Wright

The ability to say, I'm gonna be out there and just see what, what happens. And I'm not going to hold so tightly to the idea that they need to become a donor, that I'm actually burning myself out. Right. And I, and I think that that is a really important. Distinction because I do feel like I had a bit of a story that in order to be doing the best possible job that I could to be a really good fundraiser, I had to be on at all times and Wow, that's really exhausting.

Beth Ann Locke

Yes. And of course the rub is that we still are working with and for people who sometimes have that other belief, right? I mean that, that's truly the challenge is that we.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Like bosses?

Beth Ann Locke

Yes. Like bosses

Erin McQuade-Wright

board. Yeah.

Beth Ann Locke

Yes, yes. That's what I mean. Um, but, and I mean, listen, I would say over my career I ate a lot of lunches at the desk. I, um, I, I, a lot of us feel a lot of pressure to try to meet the money that's needed for the mission. Through get, you know, through donations and so we put more output, but in fact, I think we need to create, you know, the balance in our lives so that we have time to refresh. However you refresh. You know, it may be time with family, it may be absolutely not time for the family. It might be outdoors. It might be no outdoors for me. So, yeah, I think, I think people are, are getting to that. I, I think the separation and stuff we had during the pandemic. Made people feel more alone in a need to come together somehow. But, um, those old messages, which I think are still propagated, are not the right kind of pressure to help people succeed.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Hmm. Yeah. And, and who sometimes there's a gap between who we authentically are mm-hmm. And who we feel, or who we're told we need to be in order to have that job. And I remember having the distinct experience of being hired by one person. And then when I took the job, that person announced their retirement and they were followed by a totally different person who. If I was being totally honest with myself, never would've hired me.

Beth Ann Locke

Yes.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And that person didn't want someone who went, who was deep into the the, um. The psychology of fundraising and was interested in the history of it or you know, the things that people respond to, like the work of Russell James about eye movements and where they look on the letter. Yeah, like the sciencey stuff of it. He wanted more of a, um, a social butterfly. Someone who had, was at all the events, who loved that event vibe, which I did not, and who had all of the donors, all of the major donors on speed dial to be able to just be like, Hey, I need you to give to this. Right? And I don't know if that person is, they might exist and bless them if they do. But that wasn't me. So there was a gap between who I was and who I felt I needed to be. And anytime we have a gap like that, that's a recipe for suffering, don't you think?

Beth Ann Locke

Yes. I was just gonna say that must have been very painful.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah.

Beth Ann Locke

You know, like a disconnect of your personality. I, I should say, some people of course, do want to have separation between their work and, and, and don't want to bring. For whatever reason, fully who they are or can't do that because you know of their past stuff. But I, I think this idea that there's only one kind of way to be a fundraiser is really the, that's the worst thing. Whether it's only science or um. Only like social butterfly like you talked about. I, I don't that, that for me is the most damaging thing for, for fundraisers and, and major gift fundraisers in that, you know, we're supposed to be sort of connecting in more outwards with donors. Like there just isn't one path. There just isn't.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Mm.

Beth Ann Locke

Just like there's introverts only. Extroverts only. No, that's not how it works. All people can come to this place.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah, and like you said, it's about connection. I really like that that is the root of the work you do. And I'm curious about what your favorite part is of what you get to do helping fundraisers raise more major gifts.

Beth Ann Locke

Well, I, I, as I work with people, I think a lot of people have natural instincts. Not everybody, but I think most people have, well. They'll sometimes say to me like, we're talking about strategy. Well, you know, they won't wanna tell me what their strategy is because it was potentially wrong, or they've shared it with the boss and it was considered wrong. So we'll talk something through and later they'll be like, well, I, I kind of thought about doing that, or I was thinking I would do X, Y, Z, and, but I didn't think that was right. It, it was, but they're fearful. They're fear, fearful of either having someone above them or the donor respond negatively. And listen, if I think if you never have a donor respond negatively, then you're, you're not really asking them, uh, what I call inspiring them upward to give or something. I mean, then you're, it's, it's just a very easy, um. Because, you know, donors are like humans. You know, I always say today like, 10 people's dog ran away or they got into a car accident. Or, you know, there's any kind of things where you're coming to a conversation thinking about, I'm gonna make an ask. And they've had, you know, something else going in the background.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Hmm.

Beth Ann Locke

Um, so I think it's trusting some of their instincts. And I do understand that some people just want like a little crutch to help them not be. Thrown under the bus if it isn't successful by, by people that they work with. Um. Or just, you know, finding more joy in this work because to me, you are helping donors write their own story about philanthropy, which is really, you know, getting kind of deep into it, but writing their own identities, helping solidify what they want to do that's good in the world. That is, that is what we're doing. And when you kind of come at it at that, of course there are financial goals, but you know, how are you moving with people to talk about what they care about? And, and showing them how they can make more change, better, better world. As I like to say, you know, that's what people want to invest in is not your program, but helping the, you know, whoever your beneficiaries or clients are, right? Yeah. That's what it's really about. And when you kind of remove yourself in the organization and connect them to that, it makes it so much easier. And, and there are so many ways to talk about that, that are, um, inspiring, joyful, thoughtful. Helping people consider different ways that, that's what I'd love to do is help. I truly believe there are a lot of people who want to give, but you know, um, I mean this is, you might have to bleep this, but I really think there are a lot of fundraisers who are encouraged to be more transactional, not to waste time building relationships. Hurry up. You have a portfolio of 300 too bad for you. Um, and, and that's not coming at it with just churning people and their dollars through isn't the way to come at this work really.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah, and I think we see the effects of that on the fundraising staff themselves. The average tenure of an a fundraising job is 16 to 24 months before someone is leaving to find greener pasture somewhere else. And that's not, that's an overly high level of churn. And when I talk with people. From all different kinds of backgrounds who aren't in fundraising and share that statistic with them. They go, whoa, what's happening there? So

Beth Ann Locke

I think the donors don't like it either.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Right? Right.

Beth Ann Locke

Exactly. They're, I, they have bad experiences and then they just don't wanna have to engage.'cause they don't wanna have to have another crappy or disappointing experience with the fundraiser for an institution they care about.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah, and I once talked with a donor not too long ago actually about. What it's like for her as a person of who can do a lot of different things and make a lot of different sizable gifts. What's it like to sit across from a fundraiser? And she said it's exhausting because they. Talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. They aren't really interested in hearing what I have to say, and they invite me to join a board or a committee or something, and they're so poorly run. They're just going on and on and on and on, and I feel like. Ugh, I'm claustrophobic with this. Let me get outta here and go back to my business where I can make things happen like that, and I can make decisions and things move. And so just that she was really happy that I was having this, starting this podcast and having these conversations because she said there's so much room for growth there in the fundraiser. Themselves being able to manage their inner climate. Okay. You're nervous sitting across from the the perspective donor. What do you do with that? Do you even notice that or are you speaking so fast and I'm pointing a finger at myself.'cause I think I did this, I had the instinct to almost like jump out of my body to be so attentive to that donor that I had lost. My own alignment and my own presence, my own ability to say what's going on in here? Oh, it's some butterflies. Hello butterflies. You're welcome here. You know, like the butterflies are not gonna drive the bus of this conversation, right? But you get to be here. I didn't have that skill, that ability to understand my nervous system and manage it. So I'm sure I was one of those fundraisers who was not giving the donor room to speak and it was less of a conversation and more of a firing squad.

Beth Ann Locke

Yes.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Of the ask.

Beth Ann Locke

That's right. I, I call some of, uh, the requests we make very extractive from donors. Will you meet with me and tell me your story, which they may have repeated to other fundraisers at the organization. Will you Even asking them to join a board is a favor because time and health are most precious things, right? We can't rep, you know, get more of those. So we are doing it to sort of get what we want. Like if we get them on the board, there'll be more engagement and therefore more gifts. You know that kind of a, now the donor may be the most wonderful person on the wor in the world as well and very connected and all that, but we're asking for us, like I really encourage donors not to sit down and say, can we have a meeting so I can. It's really what are, what are you bringing to the table for the donor? Like so I was coaching somebody, you know, there was a little hiccup in the organization, so somebody made a big capital campaign gift. They hadn't, I. Uh, there'd been change in leadership, change in fundraisers, and actually kind of in the immediate aftermath, they were stewarded, but then not for the seven years afterwards. And so they said, we really wanna get together, but then we wanna tell them all about, um, you know, remind them about, you know, what their, uh, gifted, how many kids they helped, blah, blah, blah. I said, well, why don't you just ask them to meet, to catch up with how they're doing? Treat them like a human. Like yes. Your, your relationship is a professional one about fundraising. I a hundred percent. But instead of saying we just want to, we'd like to get together with you and then have it be all about you talking.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Hmm.

Beth Ann Locke

Come to that with some, like, what's been going, you know, you made such a wonderful gift and I know you've moved, and so what's, you know, what's been happening. We'd love to hear because you've made a difference. But I'm sure your life has also changed since then. It's, it's a conversation. Ooh.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. And that was so brilliant what you just said, Beth Ann, because I just saw in my mind's eye, two different buckets, scarcity and abundance. And the scarcity bucket really is, I don't have time to ask you about you. I need to get these gifts in. There's a story running in the background. Mm-hmm. When I set that meeting that, oh, I really need to make sure that I'm successful in this meeting. And that means getting closer to a gift at least, if not landing a gift. Right. That's right. And there is for to meet with a donor. Just to find out how they are. There is a level of abundance there that A, I'm not gonna be fired if I just don't make the ask, but actually build the relationship, right? Mm-hmm. There's a level of abundance that I can be in a situation with a donor. And not ask. I have that kind of latitude it, I'm safe enough that I can pour into the relationship with the prospective donor or the donor, and I'm not gonna lose everything behind that strategy. And so we really are. That's an example I think, of raising money from abundance rather than from scarcity. And the donor feels the difference, don't they?

Beth Ann Locke

That's right. And in this case, you know, um, I sometimes say it's not what you need to do next, but what you need to know next. They may have moved on from healthcare. They, you know, I think everybody believes if a donor made a gift to us, that they should make another gift to us, whether it's been one year ago or 20 years ago. And that could be, but sometimes people move on in their. Passions, or I find something's happened in their lives where it's, well, now we're fundraising for cancer, or now we're fundraising for, you know, um, kids with disabilities or the environment's most important to us, and that's where we're turning our philanthropic strength, right? So having that conversation helps you enter. Those philanthropic conversations with, with a stronger stance because you know where they are or, okay, they're not gonna do another multimillion dollar gift, and how can we get them engaged? What would work for them?

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah, I love that. And I'm curious about what you see as maybe a trend of what the fundraisers get, how, where they get stuck, the fundraisers you work with when it comes to managing their own inner climate. What do you see happening?

Beth Ann Locke

So again, it's lack of assurance and I, or, or confidence. I think sometimes confidence gets battered in different. Positions they've held or different bosses they've had or, or how they were brought up. But I think, I think, um, well, I'll just speak for myself. I can't even tell you how much I knew when I was 35.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Mm-hmm.

Beth Ann Locke

Right. I had tons of confidence, maybe not so much understanding about what donors needed and, and then when you kind of go sometimes, and then you have bosses who, um, there's always room to learn. But who are a type of critical that leave no room for learning. Okay. So that they, they're not in a teaching criticism, but in a, a critical of you criticism, you know, of your, your person. So I, I think sometimes people, I hate to say lack confidence'cause I don't know if it's confidence, but I think they become fearful of being themselves and moving forward. I think there's just a lot of money pressure. I, I think there's a ton of money, pressure. I think right now it's, uh. Well last few years, but it's a particular time right now as we're speaking in February of, uh, what is it, 2026, um, of people being potentially cautious. Um, some foundations are changing how they're, um. Changing how they, where they want to fund. So I'm talking here, family foundations. So yes, sometimes, a lot of times they just feel stuck. I don't know what to say to this donor like that. Like I know I wanna get from here to there, but I don't know how to do that. And. You know, my secret superpower is I somehow am really good at coming up with things to say for people to say because, because when you get down to it, having human conversations helps, helps that, um, and donors are sometimes gonna be mad and it's not about you. We have to release the fact that we're, we feel like maybe we have to carry. All the reasons a donor's not giving after five years. So if, like, if you've only been there two years, that's, you have the opportunity to explore with that donor what? Um, not why they left. Because sometimes it's we've who've abandoned the donors.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Mm-hmm.

Beth Ann Locke

You know, a board member who went off the board and they just wanted a break and then we never talked to them again because they didn't matter anymore.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah.

Beth Ann Locke

Anyways, so getting stuck, um, you know, confidence or confidence in the situation that you're in, the particular, um, working situation that you're in. And I think just dealing with the pressure, and again, I think there's a lot of money pressure that comes from above or from yourself. I think you absolutely have to have the team goals. I don't think fundraisers are often part of a goal setting, a financial goal setting. I think these are often, I mean, most places I've worked and I've worked a good deal, the, the goals are handed to us by the programs that need them, but it's not ever viewed in a lens of, you know, what capacity do we have to bring on new donors? That is. What caliber of larger gifts might we be able to get from current or prospective donors? And that's, that's a real thing. If your organization has bad news, you're probably not gonna get a lot of donors coming on.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. And it's a, it's a feeling of circumstances happening to you.

Beth Ann Locke

Mm-hmm.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And mm-hmm. If you have any sort of victim story. That has been sort of running in the background and I certainly was an example of this boy that can get kicked off. And before you know it, you can be in a position where, well, I'm not gonna say that'cause that could offend someone. I'm not gonna make the ask because that could, that could, I could do it wrong and lose the donor, which would hurt the organization and focusing on fires that are happening in house. Can seem like a really good solution, but it takes the power out of the fundraising job. Out of the fundraiser's hands. Yeah, because it's just responding to fires and putting them out and it feels like you're doing something but you're not. And I remember, uh, a university fundraiser had a sign on all of the fundraising staff's desks that said. I should be out asking for money and on the other side where the person would walk into their office and says, this person should be out asking for money because, and, and so that was really validating for me. It wasn't just me who was in my office hiding from asking because things felt so unsafe in my organization.

Beth Ann Locke

Yes.

Erin McQuade-Wright

It's, it's a common thing that people can just sort of freeze. And that's what I heard you say when people get stuck.

Beth Ann Locke

Mm-hmm.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Um, and there's, then there's money pressure and there's fear. And sometimes when we get afraid, it can seem like a really logical solution to just stop. And unfortunately, we really lose our power when we make that decision.

Beth Ann Locke

Yeah. Another thing is this whole idea that the donor is ignoring me or rejecting me, or, um, I, I always coach my people. I had a donor who'd been super faithful. Uh, she just wouldn't respond. And I, I'd had one gift round. She was a major gift annual donor, and so I was like, well, I don't know what's wrong. I mean, da da, da, da. Well, she finally responded to me. She said, I'm so sorry. I am so sorry, Beth and my husband died six months ago, and I just, and of course if I had just freaking Googled her name and her husband's name, or now I, I suggest people Google the person's name with the word obituary.'cause it could be mentioned in the obituary, not necessarily their death, but like if a parent dies, this takes a whole or a child. It, it takes a whole lot of, um. Energy and, and fundraising just is like well below the bottom. So I think also giving ourselves the opportunity to say, is this, is this the actual story? Like it, you know? So, um, I, I think one of the things we learned was kind of that turnaround instead of the donor's rejecting me, I'm rejecting the donor, the donor's not rejecting me. Like, run yourself through those stories. Yeah. And, and test them. You know, I mean, I know that seems like it takes a long time, but this is sort of the thing we need to go to. Um, another person had something similar. The, the person had started a new, new venture, which was in LinkedIn, but she hadn't checked LinkedIn. And so then I said, great, now you're just gonna say, ah, I see you just started a new venture four months ago. How fantastic. You must be so busy. I just wanted to touch base with you first to say congratulations. And second, you know, you're, I know you're usually supporting. In this case it was Covenant House. And, um, you know, when you're ready to pull your head up and look around, which might be a little while, like so saying that feels dangerous might be a little while before you can turn your attention. To me. That seems like a dangerous thing to say, but it is offering grace to the other person.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. And for the listener, what Beth Ann just did when she said offering grace, is she put her hands on her heart and she opened the palms out.

Beth Ann Locke

That's

Erin McQuade-Wright

true. And that is an a, a somatic right. A boly example of expansion openheartedness. And it is the abundance that I was talking about earlier. Right. The feeling that comes along with, I gotta get this donation, I gotta get this donor to say, yes, I gotta get, this meeting is constriction and what I'm doing with my body is kind of caving in my chest and bending forward and that posture. Even though we don't necessarily do this posture when we're asking, but that posture on a bodily level shuts us down to the possibilities that are in front of us because we are holding, we are constricted. We're thinking it has to do with us and, oh, I don't wanna ask. All of that is an inward caving in. And that motion you did was opening the heart. Hey, maybe there's something here. I I can offer Grace in this moment. And often when we do that, people rush in and say, oh, thank you so much for not judging me for that. Yes, let's have coffee. I am doing a lot of things right now, but I, uh, covenant House means a lot to me, so I definitely wanna make the time to meet with you.

Beth Ann Locke

That's right. That's right. Another thing, now other people may be much more involved than I was, but one of my last jobs just, you can, when like as a chief development officer, you can have a lot of meetings and building time after each meeting for me to come down from the meeting, take notes from the meeting, writing my action steps from the meeting. Instead of carrying them with me until like the end of the day, that was really helpful for me in a release situation.'cause I, um, uh. Because it, it helps for me to discharge. It might not be helpful to other people, but it was helpful for me to discharge either my thoughts, my feelings, but for sure getting down the actions that need to happen, even if you're taking them in the meeting, what do I actually need to do? What does this feel like for me to take this or give it to somebody else? Sometimes that's hard for people to do is delegate, so that's, that was a trick. Sadly, I learned toward the end of. My career. But it was, it was really helpful. The other thing that was very helpful for my team at that time,'cause I had heard a, um, hidden, uh, brain, um, I can't remember who it was, but about deep work is, uh, you know, we were a foundation and hospital, so we didn't have a lot of office space or we had like an old hospital room that where four or five people worked.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Hmm

Beth Ann Locke

was to, um, at an all staff, I said sometimes my team needs to have two hours of uninterrupted work to write, to do other kinds of things. So if they have a sign on the back of their chair that says, I'm in deep work, I ask that you not interrupt them. Not even for little conversations and they're not gonna be answering emails.'cause you know, I experienced a lot of fundraiser. Oh hey, um, what was that event we had three years ago? Like, they just have a curiosity and the, um, somehow the fundraiser is the walking Wikipedia for the whole organization. And that was really helpful for them as grant writer somebody, we had baby tiles, like doing stuff like that, that was very helpful. So sometimes even having the expanse of not having to respond to people, to internal people, um, and working deeply and letting them do that was really helpful. A couple times a week.

Erin McQuade-Wright

That's beautiful and it's another, uh, example of abundance. I see abundance all over your work. Beth Ann. It's like, yes, there is enough time to stop and record the takeaways from this meeting. There is enough time to do deep work with the team and to ask for that. And every time I think. We err on the side of abundance. We allow ourselves to expand a little bit, and I remember the, uh, the study they did of. People's brains. I think it was monks and a control group, I don't remember. But there were people who were watching 24 hour news.

Beth Ann Locke

Mm-hmm.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And they studied their brains and the amygdala, the center that responds to fear grew. And the, I don't know if the, if the frontal lobe, which is responsible for mitigating and sort of calming down shrank, but I remember the amygdala grew and so it's like an example of. The whatever we believe, our brains will find evidence of that. And if we believe that there is not enough and things, the world is coming apart and things are in emergency mode, you don't have time to take those notes, you've gotta keep going. That has a cumulative effect and it actually changes the brain. Whoa, and I see what the solutions that you've been talking about today, putting them into place as having the opposite effect and like choosing abundance. Like is it really true that there's no time to write down the takeaways from this meeting with this major donor that doesn't strike me as a helpful thing for me to accomplish what I need to as a major gift donor. Let me take the time and do that, and oh, I took the time and did it. And I didn't turn into a pumpkin. I didn't get yelled at. I didn't have this. I didn't lose my job. Let me see what else I can challenge. What other assumptions I'm holding about scarcity that I can challenge because that opening it back up and saying, hang on here, let's test this out. Is there space for this? Oh, there is space for this. Okay. Has a real beautiful effect that will actually help us raise more money because we're in that place of abundance rather than scarcity.

Beth Ann Locke

That's right. And I'm sure some people listening are like, no, it's the more I do. And, and I was very like that. I can't tell you how many times I took work home, you know, like even for gala's time anyways, it doesn't matter. But, you know, doing that kind of hand work after my daughter went to bed because it would save time, throwing time at a problem isn't always what is needed to solve a problem. So throwing more time, like not making expanse, but like if I work harder, work faster, eat at my desk. I mean, for sure, I've definitely felt that way, but that is not always the solution. It, it really, it really isn't. And um, I mean it's easy to say, you know, work smarter, not harder. But, um, I think the work smarter is actually understanding yourself. Not, you know, understanding yourself, understanding, um, you're not gonna get to know every donor. So I don't wanna make it like, well, I know every donor and all their peculiarities. That's, that's also not, that's, that's a falsehood to me. Unless you have very few donors. Some donors don't wanna be known by you. They're major gift donors, but they still, you know, they're, they're giving a gift, but they're not engaging deeply. But they care. But they only care up to this amount. You're mm-hmm. Not necessarily gonna be able to move'em up. So I, I don't know. I, I think there's been times where. The working situation has been so difficult that I haven't almost had the, the brain space you were just talking about. I, I got rid of my, or I have my Apple watch, but I don't wear it. I just, about four months ago, I got an old fashioned watch the pings on my wrist.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Oh.

Beth Ann Locke

That, um. I have a, I have a, I have a cell phone, so it's, I I get the pings there too. Yeah. But I just stopped needing to see every moment what was happening in, in the world and on, on my day. And I can't tell you how this has really helped, helped me. Other people might not wanna do it, or they want the counting the steps. If I am, I wear it at night and I wear it when I exercise, but I don't wear it during the day and it's helped me keep some focus. Wow. Which has been nice for me.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Beautiful. One of the things I wanted to be sure to ask you about is something that you did and it took some time. Some intentionality and a lot of courage on your part, and it touched my life. And that was your role in creating a sexual harassment survey for the Association of Fundraising Professionals. And I took that survey and I, I wanted to thank you for creating it and ask what that experience was like for you. Why did you think it was needed, and what did you learn?

Beth Ann Locke

So I, what I wanna do is be, be clear about what happened. So I had, I had my own experience, um, of what you would call egregious sexual harassment in the office. Um, and anyway, um, and I, I carried that with me for a long time. Um. Because I'd had a sexual assault when I was younger as well. That either I was a person who had these things happen to, or what I would've interpreted as perhaps my mother. You know, you did something to bring this on, you know? So I had this kind of story with me and somebody else shared something with me. And I, um, also we had the things that were happening where, um. People told you which donors to avoid and um, or be careful with or, um, you know, when you're a younger, I mean this, this all sounds very gendered, but when you're a younger fundraiser, I would say in things like annual, uh, you know, special events, annual events, there's a lot of comments that can come from donors. Sometimes there's physical act actions that come from donors, and some people just were like, that's how donors are. I mean, this. So many examples. So, um, but we don't need to put up with that. That's, that's not how things should, should happen. So I was talking to another fundraising girlfriend about this and I just was like, how do we start this conversation? So I made, like, so I made as a non-professional person, questions. And, and there's this intersection of sexual harassment, harassment and bullying. Those, those for me are on a spectrum. Those are, um, they're different, but they have the same effect, or that's how I felt. So I ask people if they'd been harassed, sexually harassed, or bullied during their work as a fundraiser. I, I, so I made like it was probably MailChimp kind of situation.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yep.

Beth Ann Locke

Um. Who did it, who perpetrated it? Was it a person in power? Was it a like an employment person or like a board member or a donor? Um, and then just asked how you felt. Um, what was the out, did you report it? What was the outcome of that reporting? Because in my situation, um, it, it was me and, and. For a short period of time, I changed reporting to two different men in my organization eight times in, I don't know, a year and a half. Like, because they were anyway, um, not, not that I was like a prize, but I think it was a power situation of who had so and so reporting to them that that's what it was. Um, and anyways. This, you know, I, when I reported it, um, they called all three of us in and, and basically dressed us down. And, um, anyways, what I found out later was this, they did, they called us in at like eight in the morning. It was a hospital, so there were people on early shifts, but it was never actually recorded. It was all, uh, it was crazy when it all came out that nothing, it, like the org for me, the organization is always for the organization. So having carried that with me from an earlier time in my fundraising and hearing people talk about it now, I gathered these and then I really wanted a FP to, to take this seriously as an issue. This is a real issue. And um, and until we. You know, shine the bright disinfecting light on it and, and actually confront that this is happening to a lot of people. And my thing was like, we need to prepare younger fundraisers that they do not have to not talk about this, or they talk about it in the bathroom at an event whispering to each other that we should be as older fundraisers helping provide that protection to them. Like, and, and giving them the words to say, you may not touch me like that. Stop doing that. Um, I'm walking away from the situation like giving them the words to say,'cause I think you're so shocked when it happens. You sometimes, I mean, first of all here, it's, there's power dynamics, there's age, there's youth, there's female, there's maybe female on female, male on female. I mean, it, it, um, male on male. Like it can go all female on male. Like it can go and, and then I'm not even talking about people who are experiencing anything because they're, um, non-binary. Like that's a whole nother situation. That wasn't even in my. In my survey and so I really pressed them. And then a FP thank God did actually get the Harris poll to do a proper survey, like a proper, proper survey. And that, I think what the outcome, there was one in four fundraisers had experienced or observed sexual harassment in, so they kept it sexual harassment in their careers and um. If you were a woman, I think, or perhaps not any woman, but some women had experienced this very strongly and it was right to, I don't know, I, I, I felt so strongly, I felt like that was just, I could, I was at a point in my career where I could push and, and bring this to the surface. I mean, that was really important to me.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah, and it, and it made a difference to me because I realized nobody had ever asked me to sort of think in one place about these different instances of sexual harassment that had happened to me. And when I took them together, because I was answering a survey, right? Mm-hmm. A FFE was asking me to, yes, consider these stories. All at once. I was really, um, yeah, I realized I had been keeping myself from looking at that, that there were multiple things that qualified.

Beth Ann Locke

Mm-hmm.

Erin McQuade-Wright

And that was a part of my story and I felt. Most, in most cases, except for one where it happened right in front of my boss and she told me I didn't like the way he touched you. Um, most of them I had just kind of put away as that happened, but I'm not gonna really talk about it. But the survey actually provided me an opportunity. To talk about it. Mm-hmm. Even if it was just like typing the answers into the thing. But I remember I took an additional step and that was saying something about the survey. It was saying, it was really saying something because I posted on LinkedIn about the survey so others could take it. And I said, you know, like. This happened to me and I felt like it was really important to be able to answer this survey, and I want others to feel safe to do the same, so,

Beth Ann Locke

mm-hmm.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Thank you for being the catalyst of that conversation happening, and it was a really important one.

Beth Ann Locke

Yes. Well, I mean, I think other, other women were involved and encouraged me and, and this was after there was a, you know, before Me Too movement, there was the, yes, all women about, you know, women being fearful. That was kind of on Twitter and, and, um, one of, uh, somebody at a FP uh, headquarters, Chris and I wrote an article. Um. Talking about this issue and sharing parts of our own experiences and how this was real issue. And it came out two weeks before Harvey Weinstein was, um,

Erin McQuade-Wright

wow.

Beth Ann Locke

Arrested. So it, it, in that way it felt very, um, current and of the moment and on time. But in fact, this has been something that's been happening for so long in so many places and really understanding the power dynamics that, that these. These are issues that need to be confronted, addressed, and you may lose a donor, but this is the right reason to lose a donor.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hear, hear.

Beth Ann Locke

Anyways, thanks for sharing your story on that. Um, it was scary at the time in some ways, but also, uh, honestly, Erin, somebody shared they'd had a noose set, left a noose. A black woman had a noose left on her desk.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Ugh.

Beth Ann Locke

There were like really egregious, really physical things that had happened. There were subtle things that happened. I mean, it really ran the gamut and it felt like I could have a real pathway to have this be seen. To have it be seen. That's what I wanted. I wanted it to be seen.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Wow. Important, important conversation to have. So thank you for, for having it with me here today as well. And I wanna ask you one more question. Yes. Because I think what you've brought today is such a wealth of expansive ways to look at fundraising and to. Tools to put into place to act from a more, uh, from a more of a place of abundance. So I'm curious about how you are decompressing from fundraising stress or releasing it. And it might be that you're doing that well in one area, or it might be that it feels far off for you. Whatever the answer is, it's gonna touch somebody today and they'll be able to see themselves in your answers. So what would

Beth Ann Locke

you say? So now that I'm coaching and working with fundraisers, I absolutely 100% love that work. That doesn't feel stressful. I mean, you know, uh, getting business and all that can be stressful. But I recently worked with a client where I was doing some of the fundraising, like helping the organization. Uh, and, um, like, like many new organizations, um, they had several really strong donor, major donor relationships, but everything else was sort of foundations and kind of what I would call granting.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Mm-hmm.

Beth Ann Locke

And they hadn't really necessarily, you know, either built what I call a ladder. Some people call a pipeline. Um. And then wanted to raise quite a bit of money in a short amount of time, and, you know, you cannot,

Erin McQuade-Wright

yeah.

Beth Ann Locke

It's so much easier to raise. Well, I, I did a post about, um, affinity Eats capacity for breakfast because it does, um, and. This idea that we can just meet with people and convince them to give it, you know, it, that kind of stuff can work in sales, but we're not in sales. We're selling the in intangible we're, we're working with people to make better, not to get something, and that's. You know, and that was very stressful for me because it was, first of all, as an outsider, you know, for me, the relationship should always sit within the organization. So that's why I'm better at giving them strategies instead of creating the relationships because you know, transferring them is like the transfer of trust and trust building is such an important part of this. Anyways, so that I found very stressful. Hmm. And worrisome because I know they needed a lot of money. The costs were going up, of course, because they were, um, things had to be manufactured. And of course there's supply chain and there's tariffs and all this kind of stuff. So yeah, for me it was about ending my day and not thinking about it.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Hmm.

Beth Ann Locke

So, um. That I think before used to be very difficult for me to do is to not worry about it. I, I mean, worrying about it actually doesn't move the needle. That's,

Erin McQuade-Wright

it's an illusion. It feels like you're taking action, but you're not taking action.

Beth Ann Locke

You aren't, and you're using a lot of energy to do that.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah.

Beth Ann Locke

And your mind goes, goes there. Like, in my most stressful fundraising times when I've been able,'cause I've lived away from my family, when I've, uh, you know, driven down, say to see my aunts, my grandma, whatever that time of a three hour drive, my mind will explode because I finally. You know, am paying attention to the road, but I'm not thinking about work. And so all, everything that's been churning in there can come out. And so I, I now really appreciate the fact that I need time away from the thinking of it.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Hmm.

Beth Ann Locke

Which sometimes means forcing. Now I enjoy cooking dinner. I enjoy doing laundry. In fact, what I like about laundry is you take something rumpled and stinky and you come up with a clean and folded. Yeah. So for me that is, that is, um. I'm sure there's something weird in OCD about it, but that, that makes me feel happy to see that process and be part of it. So that is actually relaxing to me. So, um, and for a long time, ironing was something like that for me. So finding a way to step back and not feel guilty about it. Like, I mean, you should have your other life. You should have the rest of your life is what makes you ready to be the fundraiser.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Mm.

Beth Ann Locke

Right.

Erin McQuade-Wright

I love that.

Beth Ann Locke

These experiences, your enjoyment, understanding what's going on in your community, that's what you talk to about with the donors. You don't talk to them about, I, I can't get, you know, another people giving 10,000 or get people into this. That like, when your mind is filled with, how do you release it to be like a normal person having a normal conversation? Even if it's a guided conversation. To get to a gif, you need what people call small talk. You need the connection language. Who are you? Who are you? Tell me who you are. Or remembering people, they're so touched. Um, I always have like a little note section, like if they told me about their kid, their grandkid, their parent like So you were telling me about your um, grandson, like he started college. Right. Um, you know, even though I know,'cause I checked my notes before and they loved talking about that. And they're your meeting at a human place. Yeah, they're talking about something they love that makes the future conversations easier. So, you know, I wanted to bring something. You guys have been such fantastic donors and we're so grateful for that. You know, we've been given for like 17 years and I wanted to run something by you. We have a project, it's just come up. It's really because we have so many people on a waiting list or whatever you wanna say, and I'd love to have you consider it. And here it is, and you tell them what. You know, is going to be the outcome.'cause the money is just how to get there.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah.

Beth Ann Locke

The money is a tool, so I don't necessarily feel like it's a tool, but for a lot of people it's just a tool.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Hmm.

Beth Ann Locke

It's not, many of our donors are not worried about money. They're not. Thinking what's at the end of the month or that I better be putting more toward my kids' education or to my retirement. They're, they're seeing it as a tool to make something happen. It, it's, they're not emotionally invested in the money the way perhaps I might be emotionally invested in, in my money. Um, and so it's, it's, you yourself have to put away your money feelings if you have them and talk to them about what they can change. And then they'll be like, well, what are you talking? How much is it? Or What do you need? You know? Yeah. That's the easy, beautiful conversation. And that comes not from just grabbing them on the shins and holding onto them while they try to walk outta the room.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Yeah. Beautiful. That's really beautiful, and I'm so grateful to you that you gave us that example of what it could sound like and it sound what I heard in that. Example was ease. Yeah. And lightness and not, not giving the donors so much information that they, you know, kind of ha are on their back foot about it, but they get to say, oh, tell me more. What, what would it be that they're asking that question? It's magic. So thank you for giving us I that, that example, and I wanna make sure that. Our listeners can follow you. Tell us where they can follow your work and learn more about what you do. Beth Ann.

Beth Ann Locke

Uh, well, I, um, am on Instagram as the fundraiser coach. I also like my personal, you don't need to follow my personal life, but I also am still Beth Ann Locke at the Fund fundraiser. Beth, that was kind of my handball. I'm not really on Twitter anymore. Um, I post from time to time on LinkedIn. I have a blog where I share those kinds of insights, like the one, um, affinity, it's capacity for breakfast and, and that kind of thing. I really want, I know fundraisers can be, um, easy, helpful, and inspiring for donors to come to. I know we can do that and that's what makes donors really get more of their own joy out of what's happening because a lot of donors are coming here because it's a joy. I can, I can finally do something or they might come out of duty, but. They want to make the world a little better, whether it's in their like little town or in the whole wide world. And that's what we, we can do and we can do that by being more human. And we can be more human when we're not as stressed about, you know, I just gotta get every person like you're a dog catcher. Like, you know, that's not how we're working with donors.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Beautiful. Well, thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for your intentionality. Thank you for helping us learn and think more about how to fundraise from abundance and from true connection. It was a joy to have you here today.

Beth Ann Locke

It's so much fun to talk to Erin and so much fun that we've had these little connections over time, and so I really appreciate you offering me, um, a place to share.

Erin McQuade-Wright

Okay, here are your five key takeaways. Release the idea that everyone is a prospect. That's a trap. Alignment matters, values, interests, timing, and when you stop forcing every interaction into an ask, you become more effective and less depleted. Number two, move from, what do I need to do next to. What do I need to know next? Donor non-responsiveness often isn't rejection, it's life. Check your story before you spiral. Number three, abundance shows up as behavior. Build in time to discharge meetings like by taking notes and next steps. Protect deep work time and stop letting internal interruptions drive what you get to do with donors. Number four, stop being extractive and bring something to the table. Donors can feel when a meeting is for you: to get a pitch, to get a donation, to fill a quota versus a human connection that respects their life and their agency. And finally, number five, naming what's real matters. Beth Ann shares why she helped catalyze AFP's sector-wide sexual harassment research, and why safety and dignity in fundraising workplaces are non-negotiable. If this is something you'd like support with, you can check the show notes and find a link of how to contact me about working together in a coaching relationship. I'm wishing you all the best friend. We'll see you next time.